finding jehovahs witnesses faith.
i have a question for serious participants of this forum: .
what do you deem the most reliable means for determining the various convictions held by the population of jehovahs witnesses in terms of the range of what individuals within that group consider as core tenets of their faith?.
Hello, Sir82
Thanks for your reply.
I agree that an observation of conversation and actions of Jehovah’s Witnesses is a means to determine the range of convictions held by the populace of Jehovah’s Witnesses in terms of core tenets of faith. However, in this case, what do you see as a means of compiling this data on a scale sufficient to form reliable conclusions?
Marvin Shilmer
finding jehovahs witnesses faith.
i have a question for serious participants of this forum: .
what do you deem the most reliable means for determining the various convictions held by the population of jehovahs witnesses in terms of the range of what individuals within that group consider as core tenets of their faith?.
Finding Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Faith
I have a question for serious participants of this forum:
What do you deem the most reliable means for determining the various convictions held by the population of Jehovah’s Witnesses in terms of the range of what individuals within that group consider as core tenets of their faith?
As you ponder the question also ask yourself this: Do you consider the Vatican the most reliable means for determining the range of conviction among Roman Catholics regarding contraceptives?
Marvin Shilmer
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i need to be prepared to discuss this topic.. the witnesses use several nt verses about being 'fitly united' and 'of one mind' , etc etc.
to show that christians must think the same on spiritual subjects.. using the bible as your guide how would you explain to a witness that being united in mind doesn't mean uniformity?
Hello, TheListener
I’d begin by pointing out that Jehovah’s Witnesses hold very different and contrasting convictions/beliefs regarding a wide array of biblical subject. For example, some individual Jehovah’s Witnesses hold a conviction that they can conscientiously accept literally everything in a given unit of donated blood so long as it is sufficiently fractionated beforehand; this is in order to prevent premature death during a medical emergency. On the other hand, other Jehovah’s Witnesses hold a conviction that they cannot conscientiously accept anything whatsoever from a given unit of donated blood, even if it means premature death as a result of medical emergency. These convictions stand in stark contrast, yet these Jehovah’s Witnesses are willing to associate with one another as Christian brothers. Hence even serious and contrasting differences in belief are, evidently, not a hindrance to Christian unity, which means Christian unity is something beyond specific beliefs. (See WTS provided Durable Power of Attorney dated 2001)
I’d also point out the WTS does not teach that unity requires uniformity. (See Awake 2003 May 8) At the end of the day Christians stand united around whatever can be soundly reasoned from the Scriptures. Beyond that Christians let love overcome personal opinion to refrain themselves from putting opinions of men (including their own personal opinions) on a plane with what God actually has put into writing for us.
Marvin Shilmer
howdy,.
first want to give a shout-out to our newbie member jw_researcher.
thanks for the article.
Hello, Eduardo
You write:
"Regarding Wah, I think she is just a sincere JW. I am not sure the "shark" label is appropriate. Someone posted on another thread some comments regarding her so perhaps he seems to know something more about her personally."
Let's be clear, Wah is a "hired hand" of the WTS. When and what she writes as an associate general counsel for the WTS is written in her role as associate counsel to the WTS. What she writes betrays double standards for WTS insiders (such as herself) compared to WTS admonitions to the masses of its followers.
For example, the WTS instructs its masses that reading apostate literature amounts to inviting an enemy of true worship into ones home to site and related his or her apostate ideas. Accordingly the WTS admonishes its masses to destroy apostate literature and not read it at all. Wah, on the other hand, writes that she has read articles and books written by well known apostates (from the WTS prospective). These includes articles and/or books by James Penton, Gerald Bergman, and Gary Bottling. So, apparently, when it comes to Wah's home at Bethel, the WTS has no problem inviting apostates in to have their influence. But, when it comes to the masses influenced by the WTS, the WTS instructs not to invite the same apostates into their homes. It seems whatever influence the WTS gets from these so-called apostates it wants to keep it for itself and away from it masses.
In her capacity of general counsel to the WTS Wah has undertaken to continue the myth that the WTS' publications represent the views of the population of Jehovah's Witnesses. This despite the fact that, as Wah no doubt thoroughly understands and is aware, nothing whatsoever promoted by the WTS emanates from the masses of Jehovah's Witnesses as though the WTS' publications could possibly mirror that in representation.
By the way, in addition to Wah's connection with Review and Religious Research, she is an advertised author in The Journal of Church and State within the same marketing brochure that also advertises the JCS as an interfaith effort.
Marvin Shilmer
See: Wah, An Introduction to Research and Analysis of Jehovah's Witnesses: A View from the Watchtower, Review of Religious Research, 2001, Volume 43: 2, pages 161-174
howdy,.
first want to give a shout-out to our newbie member jw_researcher.
thanks for the article.
Eduardo,
If you find noteworthy Wah's articles regarding JWs and child custody then you should find fascinating Donald Ridley's articles regarding issues surrounding the WTS' blood doctrine. The guy has no shame.
Ridley is the WTS attorney working point when it comes to the blood issue. He has written rather prolifically on the subject, considering the WTS' conservative nature. I believe he has written things he probably regrets, or will regret by the time I'm done with it.
If you provide me your email in a PM I'll send some of articles, or all of them I know of as time allows.
Marvin Shilmer
HELP?
The video record of this elder could be very helpful to an article currently in production. Unfortunately this video is apparently not available in a format that is less sexy but more widely used, such as Windows Media Player. Also, downloading and installing this Flash Player is not very easily accomplished for a great many.
Is this video available somewhere else in a format playable by Windows Media Player?
Marvin Shilmer
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forgive me, i have had a lot to drink.. however.... my daughter is 14 and still under her mother's jw guidence.
i told her that the statement ' a blood transfusion does not provide oxygenation for the first 12 hours' in (some 1970's blood brochure) was complete bollocks.. am i right?
Reading this thread of discussion compels me to reproduce a section of Bruce Spiess’ article Risks of transfusion: outcome focus. (Transfusion, Volume 44, December 2004 Supplement) From Spiess:
“RBC transfusions today are largely dependent on the use of RBCs stored at 4 degrees C in the blood bank. Fresh blood is rarely available but it should be noted that it can be obtained in some centers if desired. As RBCs are stored and aged they undergo a number of physiologic changes. The RBCs are largely using anaerobic glyocolisis to maintain cellular integrity. As such the blood rapidly becomes acidotic and by Day 28 of storage it can have a very low pH value. Potassium leaks out of the cells and it can rise in the plasma to levels of 78 meq per L or higher. The intracellular adenosine diphosphate is relatively well maintained but the intracellular 2,3- diphosphoglyceratae (2,3-DPG) levels plummet within 24 hours of harvest. The shift in available 2,3-DPG causes the Hb in stored cells to profoundly bind and hold oxygen. Therefore, when initially transfused, stored RBCs take up oxygen with tremendous affinity. They, however, do not release the oxygen to tissues. It has been estimated that stored RBCs take oxygen from circulating plasma, other normal RBCs, and even from tissue myoglobin. A recent prospective study of oxygen delivery to tissues in patients after cardiac surgery found that the transfusion of 1 or 2 units of RBCs did nothing to improve oxygen delivery to striated muscle. The shift to 100 percent O2 breathing, however, radically increased tissue oxygen delivery. So the idea that one is transfusing RBCs to increase oxygen-carrying capacity may not be realistic. That oxygen-carrying capacity, however, may be doing nothing or worsening the release of oxygen to the tissues that it is targeted to help.
“Blood utilized in the US has an average life of 19 to 21 days at transfusion. In Europe the average unit transfused is younger by about 5 days. Blood is considered “fresh” if its shelf life is younger than 5 days old. Once transfused the cellular dysfunctions of RBCs begin to be repaired as the cells undergo metabolism. The potassium is reabsorbed and the 2,3-DPG is replenished. But the return to normal physiology can take between 5 and 24 hours to restore. Of note is the fact that at 42-days-old only about 70 percent of cells are even capable of surviving for 24 hours once transfused. Therefore, 30 percent are ghosts or merely cellular debris. Those cells that are still alive are swollen and unable to behave normally in the microcirculation.”
Marvin Shilmer
we've just opened a new website in holland on the blood issue.
it's located at http://www.bloedkwestie.info
currently it's in dutch and english (just click on the english flag) and it's being translated in spanish too.
Effe,
I like the layout and tone of your new site. Your good and fine efforts will no doubt help more individuals than you ever imagine.
Please keep everyone up to date with additions to your site, as you make them!
Marvin Shilmer
from poppyr's thread on the new blood cards: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/16/104206/1.ashx.
section 4, "regarding autologous blood procedures" has an option "(b) i am prepared to accept any such procedure.".
new light????.
Hello, minimus
You write:
“Marvin, is it typcial that a person would thereafter have his blood returned into his body or is this theoretical?”
The procedure I depicted is routine.
Marvin Shilmer
from poppyr's thread on the new blood cards: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/16/104206/1.ashx.
section 4, "regarding autologous blood procedures" has an option "(b) i am prepared to accept any such procedure.".
new light????.
M.J.
The WTS allows JW to accept autologous transfusions of blood (including whole blood!) so long as the transfusion is part of a “current therapy”.(1) However the WTS also strictly forbids “storing” of blood for future use. Unfortunately since the WTS nowhere defines “current therapy” then it becomes a huge gray area for the individual JW’s conscience, but without any religions repercussion. The new policy (as of 2000) allows JWs to have unlimited amounts of their whole blood completely withdrawn from their bodies (no external circuitry of nay sort!) and, for example, taken to a laboratory and tagged with radioisotopes and then, later, transfused back into their system for nuclear scanning. This is an autologous transfusion of whole blood, but it is not a transfusion of preoperative autologous blood where blood was withdrawn and stored in anticipation of surgery.
One of the nuances of the WTS’ current policy is that it is no longer true for any Jehovah’s Witness to say that JWs abstain from transfusions of whole blood, white cells, red cells, plasma or platelets because they accept any and all of these in autologous form so long as it is part what the WTS calls a “current therapy.”
Marvin Shilmer
Reference:
1. Questions from Readers, Watchtower, 2000 10/15
